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A Christian Presenter at Pagan Pride!?

Written by Phil Wyman : September 26, 2008

Yesterday was the Pagan Pride event in North Andover, MA. I had been invited to give a workshop at the event. Matt the Pirate, and his wife Mary the Goth Theologian, John the Master Dream Interpreter (though he denies it), and The Prof. Carlos Z. joined me for the event.

I hope to develop a team of Christians who can hang out at such events, and actually be good examples - instead of silly, judgmental, and icky. “Icky” is a theological term, you know.

We want to do things like Dream Interpretation, training in Neo-Pagan/Christian relationships, and simple friendship development to show that we can all live in this world together without fighting like cats. Of course, Neo-Pagans and the kind of Christians who like hanging out with me have something in common - we are like cats, herding us remains an impossibility.

Now the day previous I visited one of the stores of a Salem Witch who was one of the presenters at the festival as well. Teri said to me in passing, “Did Carole tell you about the one rule of the workshops? They need to be performed skyclad.” Teri did not flinch a bit when saying this. Neither did I.

“That’s cool.” I replied.

So, the day of the event 5 of us drove out to North Andover from Salem at 7:30 in the morning. We arrived at the event early, and did so purposely. We put our hands to the work of setting up. Our plan was to make ourselves indispensable, which is really just another way of saying that we were going to be servants. We set up tents, we set up the Children’s area, moved picnic benches, set up signs, and Matt the Pirate helped the blacksmith haul anvils and organize the smithy’s area.

Once the vendors were set up, and the people began to arrive, we milled around. I greeted old friends from Salem, and made a few new friends. Matt the Pirate hung out with the Blacksmith; John, Mary, and Carlos got to know the festival, which is a mid-sized Pagan festival with live music, about 20-25 crafters, an early evening ritual, and a dozen workshops from morning to mid-afternoon.

My workshop was from 12:15 to 1:15. We ate pumpernickel bread and cheese, passed out flyers for the workshop, and joined the drum circle during the time between finishing set up, and the workshop.

The description of the workshop was this:

The Circle and The Cross Talk: Re-visioning Pagan/Christian Relationships

Looking back to the Caesars, and to the Burning Times misconceptions and urban myths have had deadly results for both Pagans and Christians. In our own times, though mild in comparison, Pagans have been on the receiving end of the religious persecution. Some have chosen to remain in the broom closet, and others have faced the struggle head on - sometimes to bitter disappointment with family, friends, and work associates. This workshop is designed as a deeper look into the worldview differences between Christian and Neo-Pagan thought with a focus upon deconstructing, and re-visioning some of the beliefs which cause the greatest pain. Come learn to navigate this battlefield of philosophical tension. Topics of frustration to be covered include judgment, conversion, spiritual dissonance, and sexuality.

At 12:05 we made our way to the workshop location. The previous workshop on Greek deities was ending, and we waited for the group to gather. About 20 people arrived, and after the welcome I introduced myself and the rest of the gang.

Strangely, no one was skyclad. Teri had lied to me, and Bev my wife was happier for it.

I gave my credentials for teaching the workshop - I call it Pagan street Cred - I’ve been excommunicated from a denomination for making friends with Pagans. That’s pretty darn good Street Cred.

The workshop looked something like this:

I taught for between 7 and 10 minutes on 4 different subjects, and between each subject I had the class break up into three groups. John the Dream Master led one group, Matt the Pirate led the second group, and Mary the Goth Theologian and The Prof. Carlos Z. led the third group.

My goal was to teach about four basic Christian doctrines, and what caused these particular doctrines to be divisive points between Christians and Pagans. My particular focus was to highlight imbalances in the approaches and theology of many Christians, which caused their behavior and attitudes to be negative and hurtful.

I taught first about Hell and Judgment, and shared the fact that this doctrine ought to be a great equalizing doctrine in evangelical circles, because the belief is that all people are destined for Hell or deserving of it. Instead many Christians are proud of some unique heavenly status they think they have, and instead of finding commonality with struggling humanity they become judgmental.

Then the three groups discussed the point and how they felt about Hell and Judgment. There was laughing, and there was serious dialogue, and there was a mixed combination of joy to be talking about these things openly in a mixed religious group, and concern about the treatment many of the Pagans had received from Christians they knew and loved.

Then we discussed Conversion. I told them I was going to be giving them the inside scoop. Something many Christians did not realize, or if they did they somehow lost sight of it in the midst of their zeal. The point was this: No human can convert you. Conversion only occurs as an interaction between deity and a human.

Then our Christian group leaders had to rotate clockwise to change groups. For some reason they couldn’t quite figure out clockwise initially - evidence that they are not Pagans and don’t normally work in circles. Good thing I did not ask them to rotate deosil. Once they figured it out, the discussion on conversion appeared to be more personal, and filled with stories of pressure Pagans received from Christians.

Thirdly, I taught about Spiritual Dissonance, which is my redefinition of the subject Spiritual Warfare. When I mentioned Spiritual Warfare the group groaned, and understood the ramifications of the term. So we talked about the devil scares of the 1980’s through people like Mike Warnke, and Bob Larson. Then we looked for a more balanced view of the subject from a Christian perspective. My hope was to arm Pagans with sound views of Christianity in order to help them counteract bizarre unloving behavior from wacky Christians.

The group rotated deosil once again, and began to discuss this subject. Of course the problem of evil arose in the groups, and this became a point of discussion.

Last of all we talked about the hottest subject of all - sex. I had the group shout a victory shout because we were going to talk about sex, and they did so raucously. I pointed out that the practice of heterosexual, monogamous, wait-til-marriage sexuality was actually a ritual lifestyle being lived out by Christians who believe that the Church is a Bride to the Son of God, and that our full realization of this union will occur in the second coming. Now we are engaged as it were to Him. Most Christians don’t understand that this ritual lifestyle is a choice of beautiful ritual, and not a harsh law. Because they do not understand this they sound harsh when they discuss this issue.

Once again the Christians turned deosil in the circle, and arrived back in the original group they had led. Then they talked sex with Pagans. This was a hot and wild subject. One group was very serious, another group was light but philosophical, and the third was a bawdy group from Salem (I should have known!) in which The Poor Prof. Carlos Z. was being hit on by my friend a gay Pagan and Mary the Goth Theologian was trying to keep a straight face.

The group ended after this, and we all had a good time. I met someone from the COG who was excited about the workshop, and thought it would be good to have in a COG setting as well. That would be pretty cool actually, and I would love to do that someday perhaps.

I talked with a number of new friends, and they all appreciated the open discussion combined with the attempts to bring peace between the worlds.

Later that day I talked with Teri. She had mentioned the skyclad joke, and the fact that when she mentioned it to Carole, Carole asked, “What did he do?” Teri replied to Carole, “He worked me, and simply said, ‘That’s cool.’” Yep, I did work her. I’m not easily surprised, and I’ve been to enough public Pagan events to know this was not going to be a skyclad event.

Well, it still seems strange to me, but I was able to talk about Hell, Conversion, Spiritual Warfare, and Biblical Sexuality at a Pagan Festival and people loved it. All I can ask myself is, “What the heck have Christians been doing wrong for so long that this has not been able to happen?” Then again I have to remind myself that I have been excommunicated from a middle of the road Pentecostal denomination for doing such things. So, I guess I already know the answer to that question.

Author Bio:: Pastor Phil Wyman lives in Salem, MA. He has been married to his Babe Bev for over 25 years. They have one son who is married and living in Asheville, NC, one greyhound, and a squirrel who leave the basement. He pastors a church in Salem called The Gathering, and they are getting ready for Halloween, which is a month long event in Salem. Wanna join them? It’s a missional blast.




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Comments

Viewing 11 Comments

    • ^
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    Interesting. Maybe someone could explain the deal with 'ritual nudity' which I've never understood.
    • ^
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    Urban Dictionary defines skyclad with the following note:
    "Some believe that clothing interferes with the natural energies of magick, and that it brings you closer to the Earth.

    source: paganwiccan.about.com "

    Kinda makes sense.
    • ^
    • v
    Time was, I would have probably preached a 'Come out from among them' message at you, and gone back into my happy holy huddle.
    Now, I'm totally blessed that God is helping many of us see the error (and unChrist-likeness) of our preaching at or against everything instead of dialoguing. It's still a struggle for me to keep from spouting off some of the answers I have been taught, but I know my heart is definitely moving in the right direction. I'm much more ready to listen and learn, and it's amazing how that kind of attitude tends to make both parties ready to grow and be friends.
    Thanks for going to a place many of us would find an excuse to stay away from, for acting totally like Christ would, and for sharing the results. I'm encouraged to try to do the same.
    • ^
    • v
    Preaching is teaching, encouraging, and admonishing without listening - there is a place for it. Dialoguing is teaching, encouraging, and admonishing in the context of listening - it comes with adaptation, learning, and reciprocal acknowledgments of the others' value - whether we agree with them or not.

    So it is no wonder that people are willing to listen to the same information in the context of dialogue, when they might have scoffed in the context of being preached at.

    It is amazing how much of an adventure dialogue truly becomes, and these places we are afraid to go become the places we love most. So - go for it!
    • ^
    • v
    While I think a lot of Christians would say you shouldn't even visit a pagan festival because you're associating with witchcraft, or clearly placing Christianity at an equivalence with paganism (and I might be one of them), I don't see how it would be any different than serving in politics.

    I read about how you helped serve their needs, setting up, etc. How is that different than helping raise the flag of our nation for a fourth of July parade?
    • ^
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    Hey destroyer,

    I've never understood how visiting some place, or hanging out with certain people places one's views at an equivalence with another religious view. I know that it is a commonly held position, and fosters the "come out from among them" approach to Christian spiritual disciplines, but it does not seem to mirror Christ's identification with humanity.

    I'm with you in the connecting to politics - although that seems far more dangerous to me. ;-)
    • ^
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    Destoryideas --

    "I read about how you helped serve their needs, setting up, etc. How is that different than helping raise the flag of our nation for a fourth of July parade?"

    Logically you have a good point and on that level I'm inclined to agree with you. However my gut tells me that there is a significant difference. I think the difference is that Phil and his oddly-monikered henchpeople went into a situation where, assuming they were in fact trying to represent a faithful interpretation of Christianity, they were not going to be confused with the people they were serving. The Pagans at the festival and any "orthodox" Christians who happened to be watching would immediately understand that there was a deep spiritual and ideological difference between Phil and co. and the people they were serving.

    On the other hand, if he had gone to a 4th of July celebration and helped raise a flag, those concusions would not have been so apparent. While most of us can discern the difference between Christian "religion" and pagan spirituality, the difference between Christian "religion" and secular "politics" is not widely understood.

    So I guess the answer to your question is context. Mixing Paganism and Christianity is universally (apart from some relativists) regarded as syncretism, while mixing American civic religion and Christianity is not. Thus its safer for faithful Christ-followers to serve at a pagan festival than a patriotic celebration.

    Also, "raising the flag" is a symbolic gesture loaded with subtext; I'm not sure that setting up tables and helping organize is quite the same thing. Now, if they had stripped off their clothes and started dancing around a pentagram (or whatever...I'm not really familiar with contemporary pagan religious practices), then we might have an issue. In theory, I have no problem with Christians going to a political rally and helpig set up tables and serve food or whatever, except in light of what I wrote above; that is, they're much more liable to be confused with the people they're serving.

    Did my point come across through that at all or did I use too many words? Bleh....
    • ^
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    changed my mind
    • ^
    • v
    Wow- what a great story - thank you for sharing!
    • ^
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    Thanks Shayna. It was a great experience to be a part of as well.
    • ^
    • v
    Anyone that wants to learn more about paganism or wicca at all I would reccomend http://wicca.timerift.net/
    It's just a 101 designed for people that really don't know a lot about it. i have a couple pagan friends and when my best friend turned to a celtic tradition this site explained some basics to me so I could at least have something to talk about with him. That was years ago though and now I know much more. Regardless, it's a good resource.
 

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    September 29, 2008 at 9:28 am

    [...] A Christian Presenter at Pagan Pride!? September 29, 2008 Posted by randymolson in Uncategorized. trackback A Christian Presenter ...

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