Comments on: Good News for Whom?

By: Existential Punk

Existential Punk — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:42:52 +0000

What a great post. i never thought about the way Christianity today is gnostic.

i loved this: 'The Gospel is an announcement, not a secret, that the way in which the world is currently is not the way in which it is supposed to be, nor the way in which it will always be.'

By: Existential Punk

Existential Punk — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:42:52 +0000

What a great post. i never thought about the way Christianity today is gnostic.

i loved this: 'The Gospel is an announcement, not a secret, that the way in which the world is currently is not the way in which it is supposed to be, nor the way in which it will always be.'

By: Friday’s Online Potpourri « Adventist Activism

Friday’s Online Potpourri « Adventist Activism — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:11:56 +0000

[...] Good News for Whom? (JoshuaDbauIII, Jesus Manifesto) [...]

By: joshuadbau

joshuadbau — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:01:00 +0000

I have experienced churches that have specific prayers, and some that simply adopt the Romans road theology etc. I believe that contextually you are correct, but there are many churches that do have this sort of mythical prayer belief and they attempt to promote Jesus as a formula. Your post made me think two things, first Jesus was a horrible evangelist, I mean he seems to always be telling people what they didn't want to hear, to be converted in the way they live not merely the way in which they think. Billy G has evangelized millions, Jesus just a few women. Its an interesting thought, Jesus wasn't interested in the power of millions of voices who could force the world to change, but in the power of the confession of a few honest people, whose lives prophetically called the world to change.

Second, Leo Tolstoy once said, "Thus it is that nations have become attached to a false Christianity, represented by the church, whose principles differ from those of paganism only by a lack of sincerity." And thus our churches today have become centers of power and lack the imagination of Christ not only to inspire change, but to inspire people to remain changed.

Peace

J

By: Ben

Ben — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:39:35 +0000

Personally, I think relating the "Sinner's Prayer" to G(g)nosticism is a bit of a stretch. I've never seen a church say that you have to pray a certain prayer in a certain, specific format to be saved. Have you experienced otherwise?

As I understand it, the "Sinner's Prayer" is simply a contextualized expression of what it means to know God through Christ -- i.e., the reality of sin in a person's life and their need for God's grace to redeem them, set them right, and point them towards the Kingdom of God by the gift of His Spirit. It has been broken down and simplified in many cases into the just a few sentences that must be repeated; however I don't see that using a specific prayer entails G(g)nosticism or the necessity of secret knowledge. As billions of publicly-distributed tracts can attest, it's not something kept secret. Evangelists of the traditional variety stand on street corners trying to convince people to pray that prayer. How does that equal secret knowledge?

If a church thinks that the specific format of the Sinner's Prayer, or the Sinner's Prayer itself, is necessary for salvation, then they're definitely out of line. But the fact that they utilize it doesn't equate to secret knowledge or initiation rites.

By: mariakirby

mariakirby — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:45:01 +0000

At least hollywood's hype is based off of the real science of global warming instead of some theologian's preconceived box into which he puts ancient revelation, turns the crank, and wa-la out pops 42.

By: VitoOFMCap

VitoOFMCap — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:36:52 +0000

I agree. But I feel that this over-emphasis on the Apocolypse takes people's focus away from the realities of what's happening around them. Fear is used so readily as a motivator these days. Keeping people worried (or hoping) for the end of the is beneficial for those in charge, not for the marginalized.

But perhaps my biggest issue with Gnosticism, and the reason I questioned it's use in the first place, is the removal of the humanity of Jesus that Gnostics so often stressed. The reality of Jesus' human existence and the self-emptying nature of the Incarnation is an important part of Franciscan spirituality.

Besides, there's a movie coming out that says the world ends in 2012. If you can't trust Hollywood to bring you the Truth, who CAN you trust? =)

By: VitoOFMCap

VitoOFMCap — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:36:52 +0000

By: mariakirby

mariakirby — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:26:02 +0000

I think another way that gnosticism rears its ugly head is in the way Christians pretend that they know how the world is going to end.

By: joshuadbau

joshuadbau — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:10:14 +0000

1. I think I was intending to only include the main heretical part of Gnosticism, there are many orthodox Christians who still cling to duality, ascetic treatment and the renunciation of worldly things, these were not what the Gnostic Christians were criticized for, it was for their 'special knowledge' and their secrets leading one to salvation.
2. We all influence the word with our own bias, this is inescapable. I completely agree that there are extremes, that people twist the words of God to fit their own categories, but this is not Gospel transformation, it seems must more like Gospel manipulation. We are always finding excuses to continue to live and consume the things we believe to be normal, however, simply because we find peace in the tightly knit ball of contradictions that we all are does not mean that we have been converted in the way we live by the Gospel of Christ. I think the mechanism is the communion of saints, but not the institutional church, I think the mechanism is Christ existing as community among fellow believers that challenge us to be converted in the way we live not simply the way we think.
Third I am very excited that you are a Capuchin friar, I have been to the Monastery/Church in Rome where that order started, and it was quite an inspirational experience. And I agree that there is something that sets guidelines, and boundaries, but it can never be the institutional church, for it has far too large a stake in the system of power and domination that the nations play. That authority can only be held by God, just as the authority of scripture does not depend upon church councils to be authoritative, that authority rests in God no in humanity. And let us be thankful that it lies in far better hands than our own.

J