<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Gandhi Was Wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/</link>
	<description>the radical way of Jesus in the Empire</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:17:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh W</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-15699</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 03:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-15699</guid>
		<description>I thought from the title this was going to be about the difference between non-violent resistance and subversive obedience (what does it mean to go further than you&#039;re forced?), but I agree with what you&#039;ve been saying. The church as the first example of Gods freedom, of his new pattern breaking into the world in a way people can get on board. The not yet is actually Gods mercy, easing us into a world that would actually be too good for us if we met it streight away, he&#039;s growing us into the constituents of the new world, even as we become agents of the change. It&#039;s like the parable of the two types of grain, and it&#039;s like the bride that makes herself ready.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought from the title this was going to be about the difference between non-violent resistance and subversive obedience (what does it mean to go further than you&#39;re forced?), but I agree with what you&#39;ve been saying. The church as the first example of Gods freedom, of his new pattern breaking into the world in a way people can get on board. The not yet is actually Gods mercy, easing us into a world that would actually be too good for us if we met it streight away, he&#39;s growing us into the constituents of the new world, even as we become agents of the change. It&#39;s like the parable of the two types of grain, and it&#39;s like the bride that makes herself ready.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-15463</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-15463</guid>
		<description>He might have been, though I suspect not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#039;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt; the world -- which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have been, though I suspect not. </p>
<p>I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.</p>
<p>Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).</p>
<p>The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#39;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). </p>
<p>By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically <i>of</i> the world &#8212; which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-10027</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-10027</guid>
		<description>He might have been, though I suspect not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#039;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt; the world -- which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have been, though I suspect not. </p>
<p>I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.</p>
<p>Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).</p>
<p>The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#8217;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). </p>
<p>By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically <i>of</i> the world &#8212; which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-12327</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-12327</guid>
		<description>He might have been, though I suspect not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#039;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt; the world -- which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have been, though I suspect not. </p>
<p>I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.</p>
<p>Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).</p>
<p>The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#39;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). </p>
<p>By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically <i>of</i> the world &#8212; which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-12328</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-12328</guid>
		<description>He might have been, though I suspect not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#039;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt; the world -- which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have been, though I suspect not. </p>
<p>I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.</p>
<p>Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).</p>
<p>The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#39;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). </p>
<p>By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically <i>of</i> the world &#8212; which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-12329</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-12329</guid>
		<description>He might have been, though I suspect not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#039;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt; the world -- which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have been, though I suspect not. </p>
<p>I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.</p>
<p>Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).</p>
<p>The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#39;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). </p>
<p>By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically <i>of</i> the world &#8212; which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-12330</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-12330</guid>
		<description>He might have been, though I suspect not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#039;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt; the world -- which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have been, though I suspect not. </p>
<p>I think I see a clash here between a way of thinking about ethics that presupposes it to be about universal application (which is the normal way of thinking about ethics), and a particularist ethics that seeks to work out how the church is to behave as the vanguard of the eschaton. I assumed that Brandon was speaking only to the latter.</p>
<p>Christian ethics is normative only to the extent that it prefigures and participates in the life of the age to come. To the extent that such an age has not come in fulness, there will always be the world, against which the church defines itself and for which the church exists (in both cases, this is because the church wages war against the principalities and powers to which the world is held captive; it does so by embodying the alternative).</p>
<p>The world might learn from the church, which bears witness to the reign of God, but it cannot fully embrace the church&#39;s ethics or calling without becoming the church (which would not be such a bad thing, but is not likely to happen). </p>
<p>By the same token, the church cannot undertake actions that are necessary for the world without becoming the world, or becoming problematically <i>of</i> the world &#8212; which is to say, becoming (or remaining) captive to the very powers against which it should be fighting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria Kirby</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-10026</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Kirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-10026</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Ted, for the clarity.  I got the impression from Brandon&#039;s first posting that he was suggesting the use of non-violent practices for all of life&#039;s difficult situations, whether in government or outside of government, whatever form governance might appear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Ted, for the clarity.  I got the impression from Brandon&#8217;s first posting that he was suggesting the use of non-violent practices for all of life&#8217;s difficult situations, whether in government or outside of government, whatever form governance might appear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria Kirby</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-12322</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Kirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-12322</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Ted, for the clarity.  I got the impression from Brandon&#039;s first posting that he was suggesting the use of non-violent practices for all of life&#039;s difficult situations, whether in government or outside of government, whatever form governance might appear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Ted, for the clarity.  I got the impression from Brandon&#39;s first posting that he was suggesting the use of non-violent practices for all of life&#39;s difficult situations, whether in government or outside of government, whatever form governance might appear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria Kirby</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/2008/07/gandhi-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-12324</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Kirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusmanifesto.com/?p=1580#comment-12324</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Ted, for the clarity.  I got the impression from Brandon&#039;s first posting that he was suggesting the use of non-violent practices for all of life&#039;s difficult situations, whether in government or outside of government, whatever form governance might appear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Ted, for the clarity.  I got the impression from Brandon&#39;s first posting that he was suggesting the use of non-violent practices for all of life&#39;s difficult situations, whether in government or outside of government, whatever form governance might appear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
