More thoughts on women’s roles in the church更多的思考妇女的作用在教会里
Written by Mark Van Steenwyk : August 30, 2006写的马克范steenwyk : 2006年8月30日
Instead of continuing the discussion that begun in the comments section of my previous post on the role of women in leadership, I’ve decided to add a new post.而不是继续讨论开始在评论中的一段,我先前的文章对妇女的作用,在领导,我已经决定添加一个新的职位。
I’m not at all convinced that Scripture prohibits the exercising of leadership or teaching of men by women.我不是在所有相信圣经禁止行使的领导或教学的男子由妇女担任。 It isn’t so much that I’m utterly convinced that Scripture teaches an egalitarian position.也不是那么多,我完全相信,圣经教导的平等地位。 It is more that I am not convinced of the complentarian position.这是更多的我不相信的complentarian的立场。 Given this reality, I would rather err on the side of grace and liberty.鉴于这一现实,我宁愿犯错就一侧的恩典和自由。 And truth be told, I am very much an egalitarian at heart.和真理被告知,我感到十分的平等心。 And since I don’t feel as though it is against Scripture or my convictions to be an egalitarian, I am gladly running with it.既然我不觉得好像是对的经文,或我的信念是一个平等的,我很高兴地运行。
Nevertheless, I would like to engage in a bit of exegesis.不过,我想从事一些注释。 I am not a bible scholar–far from it–but allow me to tackle one of the more difficult passages in the New Testament for egalitarian positions.我不是一个圣经学者远非如此-但请允许我以解决一个比较困难的通道,在新约圣经为平等的立场。 In fact, most passages seem easily enough for the egalitarian crowd to address, with one exception: 1 Timothy 2:11-15…事实上,大部分的通道,似乎很容易不够,为有教无类人群的地址,有一个例外: 1提摩太2:11-15 …
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.让一名女子悄悄地学习与所有顺从。 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.我不许可证一名女子,教导或行使权力,超过一名男子,而是她要保持安静。 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.为亚当成立了第一,然后前夕;亚当是不是受骗,但该名女子被欺骗和成为transgressor 。 Yet she will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.但她将被保存通过生育-如果他们继续在信仰和爱和圣洁,与自我控制。
Here’s my read on this passage.在此,我的阅读对这段话。 The “submissiveness” here doesn’t seem to be “submissiveness” to men, but submissiveness to God or to the assembly. “顺从”在这里似乎没有“顺从”的男子,但顺从上帝或向大会。 Being unsubmissive, then, doesn’t mean that they had the audacity to lead men or the audacity to speak up.正在unsubmissive ,那么,这并不意味着他们有敢于导致男性或厚颜无耻地说出来。 Being unsubmissive means that they were not yielding appropriately to Christ and/or the assembly.正在unsubmissive意味着他们没有适当的高产基督和/或大会。
Paul cannot mean that women cannot teach in a broad sense–it must be a very specific sense of teaching (since there are examples in Scripture of women teaching in different senses. I agree that there are cases when women cannot teach. I simply don’t think there is a universal principle here. I also don’t think that women, by default, should be kept from leadership or teaching roles. But the key to understanding this particular situation is that Paul contrasts “teaching and having authority over men” with remaining quiet. Clearly, women are not always to remain silent, since elsewhere in the Pauline canon Paul instructs women in the proper way of prophesying and whatnot.保罗不能意味着妇女不能教导,在广义的-它必须是一个非常具体的意义上的教学(既然有例子,在经文妇女教学中不同的含义,我同意有案件时,妇女不能教导我只是不要吨觉得是有普遍性原则,在这里,我也并不认为妇女,默认情况下,应尽量从领导或教学的作用,但关键要了解这种特殊的情况是,保罗对比“的教学和经其授权的超过男性”与其余的平静。显然,妇女并不总是保持沉默,因为在其他地方,在宝莲,佳能保罗教导妇女在适当的方式prophesying和诸如此类的东西。
So, then, this is a particular case when women are to be quiet, rather than in teaching or exercising authority.这样,那么,这是一个特定案件时,妇女要安静,而不是在教学或行使权力。 Why is it that we make this a universal teaching, when it is clearly a particular instance in which we cannot see all the issues readily within the text?为什么我们作出这是一个普遍的教学时,很明显,这是特定实例在这方面,我们不能看到的所有问题随时与文字?
You might say “Mark, you cannot so easily dismiss the complementarian reading of this text, for this teaching is rooted in the creation order!” Fair enough.你可能会说: “马克,你不能这样轻易地解雇complementarian读这个文本,这个教学是植根于建立秩序” !公平不够的。 And it is this reality that renders this the most problematic passage to the egalitarian.这是这一现实,使这个最有问题的通过向平等的。 However, this passage only makes the point that women should be submissive…and since the earlier use of this word doesn’t seem to refer to male-female relations, then this doesn’t seem to argue for a gender hierarchy, but for women to be submissive.不过,这段话不仅使这一点的妇女,应顺从… …并自先前的使用这两个字似乎并不指男性与女性的关系,那么这似乎并不主张一个性别的等级,但为妇女要顺从。
This is hardly an original thought, but given all of this, I cannot help but think that the situation of that ancient congregation involved a group of women acting in a way that was not appropriate.这是很难的原始思想,但由于这一切,我不能帮助,但认为情况古代众所涉及的一组妇女在代理的方式是不恰当的。 I do not think that the inappropriate situation was that women were merely teaching men and acting in an eldering capacity.我不认为不适当的情况是,妇女只是教学的男子和代理在一eldering能力。 The situation was that unsubmissive women (in my earlier sense of the word) were teaching and having authority.情况是, unsubmissive妇女(在我刚才的责任感字)教学及经其授权的。 Instead, they should learn from their mother Eve, who was deceived.相反,他们应该学习他们的母亲前夕,谁被欺骗了。 The implication is that these particular women are being deceived.言下之意,就是这些,特别是妇女被欺骗了。 This seems like a valid interpretation.这好像一个有效的解释。 After all, in 2 Cor 11:3 Paul uses Eve as an example of anyone who is deceived.毕竟,在二肺心病11时03分保罗使用的前夕,作为一个例子,任何人谁是欺骗。
The reason this passage is interpreted the way it is by complementarians is that they seem to assume that what Paul means by “submissive” is “submissive to men” and that the reference to Adam and Eve is meant to demonstrate a universal status for men and women.的原因,这段话是这样解释的方式,这是由complementarians的是,他们似乎以为是什么保罗的手段“顺从”是“顺从的男人” ,并认为参考亚当和夏娃就是要证明一个普遍的地位,男性妇女。 Instead, I think that submission is meant in a broader sense and that the reference to Adam and Eve is an admonition to eschew deception.相反,我认为,提交是指在更广泛的意义和参考,以亚当和夏娃是一警,自励,以避免欺骗。 These particular women are being inappropriate in their manner of teaching and having authority and as a result, Paul instructs the women to be quiet.这些,特别是妇女被不适当地在他们的教学和拥有的权力和作为一个结果,保罗指示妇女平静。
for further reading .为进一步读。 . 。 . 。
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Mark,马克,
Other than some point specific to Harvest, I have posted my final draft of以外的其他一些具体的点收获,我已经张贴我的最后草案 Women in Ministry.妇女在部。
So Dave, does this mean that you could affirm a woman in any leadership role, so long as she fits the criteria you list?因此Dave ,这是否意味你可以肯定一名女子在任何领导作用,所以,只要她符合标准,您的名单?
I feel like that’sa loaded question.我觉得像that'sa加载的问题。 Besides, it’s not a ’she’ issue.此外,它不是一个'她'的问题。
I’m not trying to ask a loaded question…it is an open honest one.我不是要问一个问题,载入… …它是一个开放,诚实1 。 It sounds like, in your paper, that gender alone is no longer an issue.它听起来就像,在您的文件,性别,单是不再是一个问题。 If that isn’t the case, then I’d encourage you to make it clearer in your paper…that’s all.如果事实并非如此,那么我要鼓励你更清楚地在您的论文…这一切。 I’m really not trying to be schnarky or anything.我真的不会试图成为schnarky或任何事。
Mark马克
It’s interesting how you site the non-hierachtical authority structure of the small church making the question of women in leadership obsolete.它的有趣如何您的网站非hierachtical权力结构的小教堂,使妇女问题,在领导已经过时。 I’ve observed how things naturally tend that way too.我已经观察到的东西,如何自然倾向于这种方式太。 It helps us get on with the real stuff.它帮助我们得到关于与实际的东西。
Mark, and anyone else interested in solid exegesis,马克,和其他人有兴趣在坚实的注释,
a great resource on the exegesis of women in leadership (or any other sticky topic) is class #11-12 in “Foundations for Ministry” taught by Dave Johnson, senior pastor of Church of the Open Door.丰厚的资源,对注释的妇女担任领导(或任何其他棘手的话题)是一流的# 11月12日在“基础部”教由Dave约翰逊,高级牧师的教会开放。 It comes in video or audio form (the video is more fun, Dave talks with his hands and eyebrows) and can be requested via their website它在视频或音频的形式(录像更有趣,戴夫会谈,他的手和眉毛) ,可要求通过其网站 http://www.thedoor.org , or just call them at 763.416.5887 ,或者只是要求他们在763.416.5887
I hope to visit Missio Dei –I’ma not-so-closet monastic myself!我希望访问使命dei我是'马不那么壁橱寺院的自己! It’s so encouraging to see missional Jesus-followers pressing into the Twin Cities culture.它的令人鼓舞的是看到missional耶稣-追随者迫切到双城文化。 Grace and peace —恩典与和平-