Mehr Gedanken auf Rollen der Frauen in der Kirche
Geschrieben durch Mark Van Steenwyk: 30. August 2006
Anstatt, die Diskussion fortzusetzen, der angefangen im Kommentarteil meines vorhergehenden Pfostens auf der Rolle der Frauen in der Führung, ich entschieden habe, einen neuen Pfosten zu addieren.
Ich bin überhaupt nicht überzeugt, daß Scripture das Trainieren der Führung oder das Unterrichten der Männer durch Frauen verbietet. Es ist nicht soviel, daß ich äußerst überzeugt bin, daß Scripture eine gleichmacherische Position unterrichtet. Es ist mehr, daß ich nicht von der complentarian Position überzeugt bin. Diese Wirklichkeit gegeben, würde ich eher mich auf der Seite von Anmut und von Freiheit irren. Und Wahrheit wird, ich sind sehr viel ein gleichmacherisches am Herzen gesagt. Und da ich nicht glaube, als wenn es gegen Scripture oder meine überzeugungen ist, zum ein gleichmacherisches zu sein, laufe ich froh mit ihm.
Dennoch möchte ich mich in ein wenig Exegese engagieren. Ich bin, nicht ein Bibel Gelehrter-weit von es-aber erlaube mir, einen der schwierigeren Durchgänge im neuen Testament für gleichmacherische Positionen anzupacken. Tatsächlich scheinen die meisten Durchgänge leicht genug, damit die gleichmacherische Masse, mit einer Ausnahme wendet: 1 Timotheegras 2:11 - 15…
Lassen Sie eine Frau mit allem submissiveness ruhig erlernen. Ich ermögliche nicht eine Frau, Berechtigung über einem Mann zu unterrichten oder auszuüben; eher soll sie ruhig bleiben. Für Adam wurde zuerst, dann Vorabend gebildet; und Adam wurde nicht betrogen, aber die Frau wurde betrogen und wurde ein transgressor. Dennoch wird sie durch, Gebären-wenn sie im Glauben und Liebe und Heiligkeit fortfahren, mit Self-control gespeichert.
Ist hier mein gelesen auf diesem Durchgang. The “submissiveness” here doesn’t seem to be “submissiveness” to men, but submissiveness to God or to the assembly. Being unsubmissive, then, doesn’t mean that they had the audacity to lead men or the audacity to speak up. Being unsubmissive means that they were not yielding appropriately to Christ and/or the assembly.
Paul cannot mean that women cannot teach in a broad sense–it must be a very specific sense of teaching (since there are examples in Scripture of women teaching in different senses. I agree that there are cases when women cannot teach. I simply don’t think there is a universal principle here. I also don’t think that women, by default, should be kept from leadership or teaching roles. But the key to understanding this particular situation is that Paul contrasts “teaching and having authority over men” with remaining quiet. Clearly, women are not always to remain silent, since elsewhere in the Pauline canon Paul instructs women in the proper way of prophesying and whatnot.
So, then, this is a particular case when women are to be quiet, rather than in teaching or exercising authority. Why is it that we make this a universal teaching, when it is clearly a particular instance in which we cannot see all the issues readily within the text?
You might say “Mark, you cannot so easily dismiss the complementarian reading of this text, for this teaching is rooted in the creation order!” Fair enough. And it is this reality that renders this the most problematic passage to the egalitarian. However, this passage only makes the point that women should be submissive…and since the earlier use of this word doesn’t seem to refer to male-female relations, then this doesn’t seem to argue for a gender hierarchy, but for women to be submissive.
This is hardly an original thought, but given all of this, I cannot help but think that the situation of that ancient congregation involved a group of women acting in a way that was not appropriate. I do not think that the inappropriate situation was that women were merely teaching men and acting in an eldering capacity. The situation was that unsubmissive women (in my earlier sense of the word) were teaching and having authority. Instead, they should learn from their mother Eve, who was deceived. The implication is that these particular women are being deceived. This seems like a valid interpretation. After all, in 2 Cor 11:3 Paul uses Eve as an example of anyone who is deceived.
The reason this passage is interpreted the way it is by complementarians is that they seem to assume that what Paul means by “submissive” is “submissive to men” and that the reference to Adam and Eve is meant to demonstrate a universal status for men and women. Instead, I think that submission is meant in a broader sense and that the reference to Adam and Eve is an admonition to eschew deception. These particular women are being inappropriate in their manner of teaching and having authority and as a result, Paul instructs the women to be quiet.
for further reading . . .
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Mark,
Other than some point specific to Harvest, I have posted my final draft of Women in Ministry.
So Dave, does this mean that you could affirm a woman in any leadership role, so long as she fits the criteria you list?
I feel like that’s a loaded question. Besides, it’s not a ’she’ issue.
I’m not trying to ask a loaded question…it is an open honest one. It sounds like, in your paper, that gender alone is no longer an issue. If that isn’t the case, then I’d encourage you to make it clearer in your paper…that’s all. I’m really not trying to be schnarky or anything.
Mark
It’s interesting how you site the non-hierachtical authority structure of the small church making the question of women in leadership obsolete. I’ve observed how things naturally tend that way too. It helps us get on with the real stuff.
Mark, and anyone else interested in solid exegesis,
a great resource on the exegesis of women in leadership (or any other sticky topic) is class #11-12 in “Foundations for Ministry” taught by Dave Johnson, senior pastor of Church of the Open Door. It comes in video or audio form (the video is more fun, Dave talks with his hands and eyebrows) and can be requested via their website http://www.thedoor.org, or just call them at 763.416.5887
I hope to visit Missio Dei –I’m a not-so-closet monastic myself! It’s so encouraging to see missional Jesus-followers pressing into the Twin Cities culture. Grace and peace —