An Interview with Rodney Clapp采访罗德尼clapp

In preparation for the为筹备这次 Conference on Christianity in a Consumer Culture会议上，基督教在一个消费文化 , I did an email interview with Rodney Clapp, who will be ，我本来的电子邮件采访时罗德尼clapp ，谁将会 one of our main speakers我们的一个主要发言者 . 。 The interview is available on the conference采访是载于会议 site网站 if you want to link to it there.如果您想要链接到有。

Read the interview, then经过面试，然后 register注册 for the conference为会议

1.  What is consumerism and what does it have to do with Christianity? 1 。什么是消费什么，它都与基督教？

The suffix–”ism”–is key here.后缀- “主义”是这里的关键。 All living things, humans emphatically included, must consume to live.万物，包括人类强调，必须消费的生活。 Even plants consume sunlight and water.甚至植物消耗的阳光和水。 Consumption is part of life as God created it.消费是生活的一部分，作为上帝创造它。 That?s why it?sa very different thing to talk about simple consuming vs. consumerISM.这有何为什么呢？ SA服务非常不同的事，谈论简单的消费与消费。 The “ism” alerts us to an ideology and congeries of practices, indeed, to a way of life. “主义”提醒我们一个思想和聚集的做法，事实上，一种生活方式。 The “ism” indicates that we are talking about the significant passage from consuming to live (consumption as one, subordinate part of life) to living to consume (consumption as the goal of life). “主义”表明，我们所谈论的显着通过从消费生活（消费作为一，服从生活的一部分）的生活消费（消费为目标的生活） 。 Consumerism is an all-consuming attitude, even itself at least a quasi-religious take on who we humans are and what we are for.消费是所有消费的态度，甚至本身的至少一个半宗教采取谁是我们人类是什么，我们为。 This makes it obvious what it has to do with Christianity- consumerism is a competing faith.这使得它很明显是什么它必须做的与基督教-消费是一个竞争的信念。 Christianity as a faith and a way of life affirms that humans are created ultimately for participation in the life of God; in a phrase, for the praise of God.基督教作为一种信仰和一种生活方式申明，人类创造的，最终参与在学校的生活上帝在一个短语，为赞美上帝。 Consumerism says we are born, live, and die to consume material goods, experiences, an unending array of novel pleasures.消费说，我们是出生，生活，及模具的消费物资，经验，是一个永无止境的数组小说的乐趣。

2.  Why it is important for Christians to develop a framework for thinking about consumerism? 2 。为什么这是很重要的基督信徒，以制定一个框架，为思考的消费呢？

If we intend to be faithful Christians, we need to respond faithfully如果我们打算忠实的基督徒，我们必须作出回应，忠实地
and effectively to cultural, economic, political realities that may和有效的文化，经济，政治的现实可能
dilute our faithfulness or even on occasion run directly contrary to淡化了我们的忠诚，甚至有时会直接执行相反
it.它。 Consumerism is especially tricky to begin to sort out but it is not消费，尤其是棘手的开始清理，但不
a tangle and a temptation we can avoid just by quitting or absenting 1纠纷和诱惑，我们能够避免只是通过退出或absenting
ourselves from discrete aspects of the culture.自己从离散方面的文化。 For instance, If we举例来说，如果我们
decide smoking or extorting bribes is harmful and unfaithful, we can决定吸烟或勒索受贿是有害的和不忠，我们可以
quit smoking or extorting bribes.戒烟或勒索受贿罪。 We can live without tobacco and我们可以生活无烟草和
bribes.受贿罪。 But we can?t live without some level and some kinds of但我们可以呢？吨生活在一定程度上和一些种
consumption.消费。 So we need to be able to develop standards, languages,因此，我们需要能够制定标准，语言，
conceptualities, and practices that will help us to discern when and conceptualities ，和做法，这将有助于我们辨别时，和
what consumption is consumerism.什么是消费，消费。

3.  Why do you think this is a non-issue for so many Christians in America? 3 。为什么你认为这是一个非问题上如此众多的基督徒在美国？

On a trivial but still true level, it is a non-issue for so many对琐事，但真正的水平，这是一个非的问题，这么多
because, for those of us who are affluent (and most Christians in因为，对于我们谁是富裕（大部分的基督徒
America are, by any global and historic standards, affluent),美国是，任何全球性，历史性的标准，富裕） ，
consumerism is comfortable and more than a little pleasant.消费是舒适和多一点愉快的。 At least on至少在
a surface level, it can make us feel secure.表面水平，它可以使我们觉得安全。
(When we delve just below the surface, we begin to uncover a lot of （当我们深入略低于表面上，我们开始发现了很多
frustration and even desperation–with the out-of-control busyness of沮丧和绝望，甚至-与失控的控制繁忙的
our lives, with the gnawing emptiness that comes from never truly being我们的生活，与啃的空虚来自从来没有真正被
satisfied, with the numbness of soul that comes from disregarding our满意，与麻木的灵魂，来自无视我们的
neighbors and only looking out for “number 1,” and so on.)邻居只看到“ 1号”等） 。

More profoundly, consumerism is a non-issue because it has so更加深刻地，消费是一个非问题，因为它有这么
thoroughly suffused our society, our lives, that we have trouble彻底suffused我们的社会，我们的生命，我们有麻烦
imagining life without it.想象生活中没有它。
Think how few activities you can conduct in a normal day without认为如何几次活动，您可以进行在一个正常的一天
spending money, without thinking of yourself as a consumer making大洒金钱，没有想到自己作为一个消费者，使
choices and purchasing commodities.选择和购买商品。 Our youth in school are no longer我们的青年在学校已不再是
first and foremost “students,”首要的“学生”
but are designated “educational consumers.” We are prone spiritually to但被指定“教育消费者”我们很容易从精神上来
be “church shoppers” rather than “worshipers.” We approach our problems “教会购物者” ，而非“信徒： ”我们的做法，我们的问题
and discontents as individualized consumers: in another cultural和不满，作为个性化的消费者：在另一文化
setting someone having trouble relaxing and sleeping might learn how to设置有人遇到困难，放宽和睡觉，可能了解如何
pray or meditate; in ours, we think first of a sleeping pill or other祈祷或冥想，在我们的，我们认为第一个睡丸或其他
elixir we can buy and consume.内丹术，我们可以购买和消费。 When we worry for a spouse?s or elderly当我们担心配偶？ s或老人
relative?s safety while driving alone, we don?t ask how safer roadways相对有何安全的同时，驾驶单，我们不要？吨询问如何安全的道路
and neighborhoods might be achieved politically and structurally, but和街道可能取得政治上和结构上，但
we buy the spouse or grandparent a cell phone.我们购买的配偶或外祖父母的手机。 In short, we are fish总之，我们是鱼
and consumerism is the water we swim in–and that we breathe.和消费是水，我们在游泳和我们喘不过气来。 Because因为
it?s so pervasive it?s hard to notice, let alone question.它有何因此，无孔不入的呢？ s硬碟的通知，更遑论的问题。

4.  What has troubled you the most about American Christianity in regards to consumerism? 4 。有什么困扰，您最关心的美国基督教在关于消费？

Right now, I am especially troubled that we American Christians seem so现在，我很困扰，特别是我们美国的基督徒似乎使
determined not to notice and name consumerism as a detriment to our决心不通知，并将其命名为消费作为损害我们的
faith and our witness.信仰和我们的见证。 We are apparently willing to go to great lengths我们显然是愿意去的伟大长度
to locate all that troubles us outside ourselves, even to the point of要找到所有的麻烦，我们自己以外，甚至到了点
designating scapegoats.指定的替罪羔羊。 I offer two examples: It is absurd that so much我提供两个例子：这是荒唐的这么多
attention, not least by conservative Christians, was squandered on注意，并非最不重要的，由保守的基督教徒，被浪费就
Janet Jackson?s Super Bowl “scandal” of exposing her breast, while the珍妮杰克逊有何超级碗“丑闻”揭露她的乳房，而
televising of the same game included numerous ads to rectify erectile转播的同时，游戏包括众多的广告，以纠正勃起
dysfunction.功能障碍。 Jackson?s scandal was noticed only by slowing and freezing杰克逊有何丑闻被注意到，只有放慢和冻结
the screen image; meanwhile, parents around the country are at every屏幕上的形象，同时，家长在该国各地都在每一个
commercial break having to explain or fend off their children on what商业打破无须解释或击退他们的子女就什么
exactly is erectile dysfunction.究竟是勃起功能障碍。 But the latter is unnoticed as但后者是忽略作为
absurd–as even more problematic than Janet?s split-second “wardrobe荒谬的-因为即使是问题较多，比珍妮特有何分裂的第二个“衣柜
malfunction”–because commercials and consumerism undergird our “way of故障“ ，因为商业和消费undergird我们”的方式
life.” Scapegoating Jackson helped us not to notice the consumerism we生命“ 。 scapegoating杰克逊帮助我们不是看到了我们的消费
are all complicit in. A second, and more serious, example concerns都是共犯英寸第二，更为严重的是，例如关注
homosexuality.同性恋。 Christians have reason to be concerned about this issue,基督徒有理由关心这个问题，
but it is an act of scapegoating to posit what is at most five or ten但它是一个行为scapegoating ，以posit什么是最五年或十年
percent of the American population as a major cause of the breakdown of ％的美国人口作为一个主要的原因破裂
stable American families.稳定的美国家庭。 Much more significant in eroding the更为重要的侵蚀
stability of and fidelity within American families is consumerism and稳定和富达与美国家庭的消费和
its deeply engrained attitude of always pushing ahead to the new, the其根深蒂固的态度始终是推进到新的，
novel, the upgraded.新颖，升级。
It is very hard to remain married to one person for years, let alone a这是很难继续为已婚夫妇一人，为年，更遑论一
lifetime, when you are constantly coached in nearly every aspect of一生中，当您正不断执教，在几乎每一个方面
your life to change, to exercise options, to acquire the latest model.你的生活改变，行使购股权，以获得最新型号的。
Scapegoating homosexuals obscures and diverts our attention from the scapegoating同性恋者掩盖和转移我们的注意力从
consumerism that much more dramatically and certainly has eroded the消费主义认为，更为显着，并有一定的侵蚀
traditional family.传统的家庭。

5.  How can Christians resist the negative effects of consumerism? 5 ，如何可以基督徒抵制的负面影响，消费呢？

You have to understand that I am a writer, theologian, and cultural critic.你要知道，我是一个作家，神学家，和文化评论家。
From my vantage point, it?s important that we learn language,从我的制高点，它有何重要的是，我们学习的语言，
practices, conceptualities that allow us to name and discern做法， conceptualities ，使我们的名称和识别
consumerism at work.消费在工作。 It is a matter of imagination.这是一个问题的想象力。 I think that once我认为，一旦
our imaginations are reformed enough for us to be begin to notice我们的想象力进行改革，足以让我们将开始公告
consumerism for what it is, resistance follows naturally enough.消费为它是什么，阻力自然不够的。

6.  Do you think that consumerism benefits Christianity in any way? 6 。你认为消费的好处，基督教在以任何方式？

Again, I distinguish between consumption and consumerism.再次，我区分消费和消费。 Consumption消费
is a God-created good.是上帝创造了良好的。 More than than that, it is a redemptive多比，它是一个救赎
good–our Lord even invites us to consume his body and blood in the好我们的主，甚至邀请我们消耗他的身体和血液，在
eucharist.圣体圣事。 But of course, it is sometimes very difficult to distinguish不过，当然，这是有时很难区分
when a particular act of consumption crosses the line and becomes当某一特定行为的消费越过线，成为
participation in consumerism, in consumption as all-consuming, as a参与在消费，在消费的所有消费，作为一个
competing faith and allegiance.竞争的信仰和效忠。 I heartily believe that our daily我衷心相信，我们的每日
encounters with consumerism provide the material, existential遇到消费提供物质，存在
opportunities for us to appreciate what is true, good, and beautiful机会，让我们明白什么是真，善，和美丽的
about a life that is not marked by scarcity.约的生活是没有标明由稀缺。 I?m not interested in a一？米不感兴趣，在一
distorted Christianity that imagines faith can only be real or true扭曲的基督教认为，想象的信念，只能真实或真实
when we are miserable.当我们可怜。 So I think that when we have the resources or所以我认为，当我们有资源或
tools to discriminate and discern when consumption has become工具歧视，并鉴别时，消费已成为
consumerism, we can most boldly, robustly, and yes, thankfully, consume消费，我们可以最大胆，强劲，是的，值得庆幸的是，消费
goods that are meant to be consumed.货物，是指被消耗。 But to say that consumerism as an但说，消费主义作为一个
ism and a way of life benefits the church and true worship would be国际安全管理和一种生活方式的好处，教会和真正的崇拜会
tantamount to trying to figure how idolatry is good for the faith.等于试图数字如何偶像崇拜的是好的，为的信念。

7. 7 。 Where do you see Christians doing well with this issue? 如果你看到基督徒做好与这个问题呢？

There are fine books on the subject.有优良的书籍就此事。 Philip Kenneson’s Life on the Vine弘kenneson的生命就葡萄
and John Kavanaugh’s Following Christ in a Consumer Society are two和约翰卡瓦闹夫的下列基督在一个消费社会是两个
great examples.伟大的例子。
I can think of any number of intentional communities which confront我能想到的任何数量的故意社区对抗
consumerism head on and provide examples for all of us–such as the消费的头部和提供的例子，对我们所有人来说，如作为
Bruderhof communities in Pennsylvania and New York, or my friends at bruderhof社区在宾夕法尼亚州和纽约，或在我的朋友
the Church of the Servant King, in Eugene, Oregon.教会的仆人国王，在尤金，俄勒冈州。 Above all, we must首先，我们必须
remember that we don’t have to come up with all kinds of new approaches请记住，我们并没有拿出与所有种的新方法
or tools or techniques.或工具或技术。 (That would in fact be an act of consumerism.) （这将在事实上是一种消费行为） 。
The Christian tradition is replete with treasures that help us基督教的传统，充斥着宝藏，帮助我们
collectively and individually to engage consumerism.集体和单独地进行消费。 For instance, the举例来说，
ancient monastic tradition and figures such as John Cassian give close古代寺院的传统和数字，如约翰cassian给予密切
guidance in discerning when food consumption becomes gluttonous.指导，在辨别时，食品消费成为gluttonous 。 It’s它的
not a matter of nothing out there to celebrate and to deepen our没有的事无关，有庆祝和深化我们的
convictions and practice–it’sa matter of waking up and availing信念和实践，这件事的觉醒和利用
ourselves of this astounding heritage.自己这一惊人的遗产。 In that regard, I’m cheered by在这方面，我欢呼，由
the development of the New Monastic movement among young Protestants.发展新的寺院运动的青少年新教徒。

for further reading .为进一步读。 . 。 . 。

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