A More Perfect Consumer Church, pt 2一个更完美的消费教会，铂2
Written by Mark Van Steenwyk : March 5, 2005写的马克范steenwyk ： 2005年3月5日
I got alot of good feedback from friends (and some negative feedback too) about my "A More Perfect Consumer Church" post. FYI, I obviously dislike consumerism’s effect on the Church, so if you are visiting here for the first time, don’t take me seriously. Here are a few more ways that I think we can embrace consumerism more completely:我得到了很多好的意见的朋友（和一些负反馈太）对我的“一个更完美的消费教会”后。仅供参考，我显然不喜欢消费的作用，对教会，因此，如果您是此间访问的为第一次，不带我认真。这里有一些更多的办法，我认为我们可以拥抱的消费更完全： 
Some churches are now allowing credit-card donations on their websites. I say we go one step further. Why not church credit cards? That way, if people have the money to give, great!一些教会，现在让信用卡捐款，在其网站上，我说我们走一步进一步，为什么不教会信用卡？这样，如果有人有金钱给，伟大！ If not, just as good!如果不是，正如好！ The church can get revenue from late fees and minimum monthly payments. Of course, the APR should be 10%, just to keep things biblical.教会可以得到的收入，滞纳金和每月最低付款。当然， 4月应该是10 ％ ，只要保持的东西，圣经。
Creeds are good things to have. The Apostle’s Creed has been a standard of Orthodoxy for hundreds of years. But isn’t the term "orthodoxy" a bit too oppresive? I don’t know about you, but I think I should have theology like I have burgers: "my way." So, here is a template for your own personal orthodoxy. Fill in the blanks for your own personal creed (everything troublesome has been taken out):信条是好的事情。传道者的信条一直是标准的正统，数百年来，但不是“正统” ，未免太oppresive ？我不知道你，但我想我应该有神学一样，我有汉堡： “我的方式” 。因此，这里是一个范本，为自己的个人的正统。填补中的空白，为自己的个人信仰（一切麻烦，已经采取了出来） ：
I believe in ___________我相信，在___________
the _______ of heaven and earth, _______天地
and in _____________:并在_____________:
Who was conceived of __________,谁是构思__________,
________________,
___________________,
_______________________. _______________________ 。
____________________. ____________________ 。
The third day ____________________.第三天， ____________________ 。
______ ascended into ____________ ______跻身____________
and sits at __________________________,和位于__________________________,
____________________________________. ____________________________________ 。
I believe in the ________________,我相信，在________________,
the communion of _________,共融的_________,
the _____________________,该_____________________,
the _____________________,该_____________________,
and life _____________.和生活_____________ 。
__________. __________ 。
Last time, I suggested cup holders for coffee drinkers in church services. How about going futher and offer a punch-card for free coffee, as many coffee shops offer? But instead of a最后一次，我建议持有杯咖啡，饮酒后在教会服务。如何去进一步提供了冲卡的免费咖啡，因为有很多咖啡馆提供？而是一个
"buy 10 get one free" sort of deal, you get a free coffee for church attendance? “买十送一免费”排序的处理，您会获得一张免费的咖啡，为教会出席？
for further reading .为进一步读。 . 。 . 。
- None Found无发现
I know of a church community in California that maxed out all their credit cards in one situation because they felt God calling them to fill a particular need.我知道一个教会团体在加利福尼亚州maxed所有信用卡，在一种情况下，因为他们觉得上帝称他们是为了填补特别需要。 Not that it’sa good idea, but…不说，这是个好主意，但…
Hilarious!搞笑！ Maybe we should take it further than the coffeehouse thing - perhaps even implement a food court.或许我们应该采取进一步比coffeehouse的事-甚至实施食品法院。 This is the day of choices, right?这是天的选择，对不对？
Brilliant.辉煌的。
Would it not make sense for our churches to form corporate sponsorships with the big boys.它是没有意义的，为我们的教堂，形成企业赞助，与大男孩。 Allow Pepsi to print an add every 20pages in the bible and you can get a crate of 100 for free, hell they may even throw in some free sodas.让百事可乐打印添加每20pages在圣经中，你可以得到一箱100个免费的，地狱，他们甚至可能丢在一些免费的苏打水。 And why not update some of the imagary and put the Jesus and some disciples in Abercrombie clothing.为什么不更新部分的imagary ，把耶稣和一些弟子在阿伯克衣物。 It could be the merging of two largest religions today.它可以合并两个最大的宗教。
YES!是！ Now you’re thinking like a consumerist!现在，您的思想就像一个消费！
The comments posted are granted quite humorous, but the real dispute of churches and consumerism will not resolve by pionting fingers but to re-evaluate your own lives.评论张贴的是给予相当幽默，但真正争议的教堂和消费将不会解决pionting手指，但重新评估您自己的生命。 The subject of giving (no matter the circumstances of payment) should not be judged from one who does not give.主题给予（不管的情况下金）不应该从一谁不给。 In the hope of changing consumerism should it not begin with your own personal life?在希望改变消费难道不是开始与自己的个人生活呢？ I agree that Churches across North America have strayed from their connections to God, but does that leave us the right to judge or criticize them?我同意教会北美各地已偏离了其连接到上帝，但是否离开我们的权利，法官或批评他们呢？ If so are we in turn, any better then the ones we criticize?如果是的话，我们在反过来，任何更好的话，我们的批评？
Yes, it does give us the right to criticize them.是的，它给我们的权利批评他们。 If we don’t criticize the Church when it isn’t being faithful, who should?如果我们不批评教会时，这不是忠诚，应由谁？ If we don’t think so, then we have no way of making sense of what Paul is doing when he writes to churches, often criticizing them for falling short of Christ’s call.如果我们不这样认为，那么我们没有办法作出什么样的意识，保罗是这样做时，他写信给教会，经常批评他们属于短期基督的呼吁。
I think it is fair to say that we should criticize in a loving spirit.我认为这是公平地说，我们应该批评，在一个充满爱的精神。 If my post came accross as harsh or unloving, I’m sorry.如果我的职务来作为全国苛刻或unloving ，我很抱歉。 I don’t make fun of these things as someone who is outside looking in. I struggle with consumerism like everyone else.我不作的乐趣，这些东西，因为有人外面谁是期待。我的斗争，与消费和其他人一样。 However, I find parody can be helpful in raising issues.不过，我觉得模仿秀，可以帮助在提高的问题。 Perhaps I’m wrong.也许我是错的。
Hey, this just occurred to me.嘿，这只是发生在我。 What if Paul was more critical in his earlier writings and more experiential in his later writings.如果保罗是更重要的在其早先的著作和更多的经验，在他后来的著作。 I wonder if he shifted from using reason early in his ministry (reasoning and arguing with the Greeks, critiquing the church in Corinth, etc.) to experiencing his oneness with Christ in a way that it found expression in his interactions with the communities he discipled?我不知道，如果他转向使用理由，早在他的部（推理和争论，与希腊人，批评教会在科林斯等） ，经历了他的统一性与基督同在的方式表达它发现在他的互动与社区，他discipled ？ In fact, the end of his life was an experience of loyalty to his growing boldness in Christ.事实上，在结束他的生命是一个经验的忠诚，他日益增长的气魄，在基督里。
It’s the idea of a leader who offers advice/critique early on in their career, but late–as they develop–they realize that talk changes little and so they adopt the use of activities and experiences out of which a new paradigms become evident to those they are leading.它的构思的领导人谁提供意见/批判早在他们的职业生涯，但晚，因为他们的发展，他们认识到，谈变化不大，所以他们采取使用的活动和经验指出，其中一个新的典范，成为明显那些他们是领导。
Just a thot…只是一个thot …
I just wrote a response, but it didn’t show up!我只是写了回应，但它没有显示出来！ GRRR.哎呀。
Gregg, basically I think that your insight points to one of the reasons that elders began to be raised up in local churches: sending letters of encouragement and reproof weren’t enough.格雷格，基本上，我认为您的有识之士点的原因之一，长者开始被提出，在地方教会：信访的鼓励和谴责是不够的。 Wise guides were needed.明智的导游需要。 These early elders were probably not “officers” or had any administrative power.这些早期的长者，可能不是“官” ，或有任何行政权力。 Instead, they were recognized saintly folk who were examples and guides, and perhaps gate-keepers of the Gospel.相反，它们被承认saintly民间谁的例子和引导，也许门饲养的福音。