Church Without Presence?教会没有在场？
Written by Mark Van Steenwyk : September 28, 2004写的马克范steenwyk ： 2004年9月28日
People sure throw around the word “incarnational” alot these days.人们肯定丢词前后的“ incarnational ”了很多这些天。 It may even be the word de jour when one is looking for a single word to define the church.它甚至有可能这个词与出版商时，一个是在寻找一个单一的Word来界定教会。 “Missional” or “community” also rank right up there. “ missional ”或“社区”也职级的权利在那里。 At any rate, I don’t think people really understand the weight of the word “incarnational.” You see, incarnation implies precense.在任何率，我不认为人们真正了解的重量改为“ incarnational 。 ”你看，化身意味着precense 。 If you attend a church gathering in a particular neighborhood, but don’t really live in said neighborhood, or at least frequent that neighborhood, you aren’t really being incarnational.如果你参加一个教会聚集在某一特定居委会，但真的不说，住在附近，或至少经常说，居委会，你是不是真的被incarnational 。 At least, not in a precise way in regards to whatever church you “attend.” You can’t be incarnational without presence.至少，而不是一个确切的方式方面，无论教会你“出席。 ”你不能incarnational而不存在。 And in my book (which I know you don’t all read) you can’t be church the way Jesus intends without being incarnational.和我的书（我知道你不读）你不能教会的方式耶稣打算而不incarnational 。
I’m not trying to be a dink.我不会试图成为一家丁克。 I just don’t understand how a group of people meeting in an area, but without those people effectively living and engaging people in that area, qualifies as “incarnational.” Neither is it particularly “missional” for that matter.我只是不明白为何有一群人在会议的一个领域，但没有这些人有效地生活和从事人民在这方面，有资格作为“ incarnational ” ，也不是特别“ missional ”这一问题。 “Community” may still happen, but community is almost always better if the members of that community are in close proximity to one another. “社区”仍有可能发生，但社会上几乎总是更好，如果成员认为，社会是在接近1 。
Please.请。 Please.请。 Please stop using such profound words unless you understand what they mean and are prepared to use them in the right way.请停止使用，这样深刻的话，除非你明白他们的意思，并准备利用他们在正确的做法。 Throwing around words like “incarnational” causes them to lose meaning.投掷左右，换句话说如“ incarnational ”的原因，他们失去了意义。
Church needs to be less about affinity groups gathering for an event and more like a family reaching out in their neighborhood with the love of Jesus Christ.教会需要加以少讲亲和团体聚会活动越来越像一个家庭伸出援手，在他们的居委会与爱耶稣基督。 We need to be careful not to end up looking like the former while claiming to be the latter.我们必须小心，不要到头来看起来像前，而自称为后者。
for further reading .为进一步读。 . 。 . 。
- None Found无发现
Hmmm… I think I agree with you. hmmm …我觉得我同意你的。 However in your emphasis incarnation being missional, you haven’t spoken much about how this family can be incarnational to each of the members by promoting spiritual growth, psychological wellness and an overall healthy, well-adjusted body of believers.然而，在您强调的化身，被missional ，你有没有发言的不多，如何这个家庭可以incarnational ，以每名成员通过促进精神文明的增长，心理健康和全面的健康，以及调整身体的信徒。
I know that you are interested in theese things, but the family can’t just be missional if it isn’t drawing people to a relatively healthy body.我知道你有兴趣在这些东西，但家庭不能只missional如果不是绘图的人到一个相对健康的身体。 This is one of the major things that got me interested in the house church movement to begin with.这是其中一个主要的事情，让我有兴趣在众议院的教会运动的开始。
I couldn’t agree more.我不能同意。 And whatever ‘emergent’ means, it surely ought to refer to emerging from the place (neighbourhood) in which the Christian community finds itself.什么'急诊'的手段，当然应该是指新出现的由地方（邻里） ，其中基督教社区所处的。
Q? q ？ Does the whole idea of neighborhood really exist any longer in America?是否整个构思的居委会确实存在任何不再在美国？ Do we really have geographic (block by block) areas that we call ‘ours’?我们是否真的有地理（座由座）领域，我们称之为'我们' ？ Doesn’t the American fascination with the automobile and our tendancy to be around people who are ‘like’ us - whatever that means - trump any idea of ‘living in such and such of a neighborhood?’没有美国的迷恋，汽车和我们的倾向左右的人谁是'想'我们-无论这意味着-王牌任何的想法'生活在这样或那样的一个居委会呢？
If this is possible, how in the world do we do incarnational living?如果这是可能的，如何在世界上我们做incarnational生活呢？
I bring absolutely nothing to the table, but just more questions!我带来了完全没有表，而只是更多的问题！
Trike trike
blorge–you are most certainly correct. blorge -你最正确的肯定。 I agree with what you are saying, but it goes a bit beyond the scope of this particular post.我同意你说，但是这是不言而喻有点超出了这个范围，特别是邮政。 Remind me to write about that sometime.提醒我写这一段时间。
Trike–thanks for posting! trike -感谢发布！ I just found out that you have a blogsite yourself.我刚才发现您有一个blogsite自己。 I look forward to checking it out.我期待着检查出来。
I believe there is still a sense of neighborhood for many in the city (and in smaller towns too for that matter).我相信目前仍有意识，居委会为许多在城市（和在小城镇也为此事） 。 This is especially true among ethnic minorities.这是尤其如此，少数民族之间。 There are a number of churches in our area that were planted to reach out to a certain area, but the members commute in. This is most certainly not incarnational.有不少教会在我们的地区种植接触到某一个地区，但成员通勤英寸，这是最当然不是incarnational 。
Some churches aren’t able to be geography driven in the same way that Missio Dei can potentially be geography driven.一些教会无法得到地理驱动，在相同的方式使命dei可能会被地理学的推动。 But some sort of incarnational approach is still possible.但某种形式的incarnational的做法是仍然有可能。 We can still get to know our neighbors, be involved with our school district, be “strategic consumerists” at the local Caribou Coffee, etc. The main point of my post wasn’t to explain why churches ought to be incarnational, but to ask that people stop throwing around that word.我们仍然可以去了解我们的邻居，参与与我们的学区，是“战略consumerists ”在当地驯鹿咖啡等主要点我的职务没有解释为什么教会应以incarnational但要问，人们停止投掷靠近这个词。 If a church doesn’t have a real precense in an area, I don’t see it as an incarnational church.如果一所教堂并没有一个真正的precense的一个领域，我看不出它作为一个incarnational教会。 The people who go there might be incarnational in their own right–by sharing their faith with friends and co-workers, but this isn’t the same thing.人民的谁去可能会有incarnational在他们自己的权利，通过共享他们的信仰与朋友和合作，工人，但是这不是同一回事。
… and couldn’ta church have as one of its mission goals to forge a sense of community in its neighbourhood? … …和couldn'ta教会之一，其任务目标，以建立一种社区意识在其附近？
When I think of incarnational ministry I think of someone like Hudson Taylor who spent years just learning the customs, language and traditions of the Chinese (and dressed like a native) before he even began his official ministry.当我想到incarnational部，我认为有人想哈德逊泰勒谁花了年刚刚学习海关，语言和传统的中国（穿着像一个本土）之前，他甚至开始了他的官方部。 He totally immersed himself in the culture of the people he was attempting to reach.他完全沉浸在文化的人，他企图达到。
Trike - I agree that the concept of neighborhood is disintegrating in America by and large but that does not mean that it should be that way and we just have to accept it. trike -我同意的概念，居委会是瓦解，在美国和大，但这并不意味着它应该是这样，和我们只是接受它。 Relationships are central to the Gospel and geographical proximity is central to relationships.关系是中环至福音和地理上的接近，是中央的关系。 Jesus calls us to create an alternative parrellel culture to the mainstream popular culture in which his sanctifying work builds bridges between.耶稣要求我们创造一个替代parrellel文化的主流，流行文化在其中，他sanctifying工作，建立之间的桥梁。
Mark - thanks for this thread of thought, it has got be thinking about is incarnation by presence enough…马克-感谢此线程思想，它已得到应思考的化身，是由存在不够…
I’ve come across lots of new expressions of church that major on incarnation in terms of presence but not in attitude.我已经碰到许多新的表达教会对主要的化身，在条款的存在，而不是在态度。 (ok this is largely in the UK) （确定，这主要是在英国）
They live on the same estates, neighbourhoods etc… but their attitudes are to seek the like-minded - get others to move onto the estates with them etc… which is lovely but for me that is incarnation in presence and not attitude- it’s not enough!他们生活在同一个屋，邻里等… ，但他们的态度是寻求有同样想法的-获取他人进入屋内与他们等… ，这是可爱，但对我来说这是在存在的化身，而不是态度，它的不足够的！
Incarnation in terms of mission for me is more of soaking up of the issues and problems which means if any expression of church claims to be incarnational but continues to be pre-occupied with designer people and is not moulded by the locality - I’m suspicious.化身，在条款的使命，我更是浸泡起来的问题和问题，这意味着如果有任何的表达教会自称为incarnational ，但仍然是前占领设计师人民，是不是塑造地方-我非常可疑。
Unfortuntely many of new expression churches struggle with the marginalised and with those that largely are hard work and are defined by their status of not being wanted. unfortuntely许多新的表达教会的斗争，与边缘化，并与那些在很大程度上是辛勤工作和界定他们的身份不被通缉。
Good comments, Gordon.良好的意见，戈登。 It is simply much easier to focus on affinity groups rather than dealing with the messiness of people from different cultures and economic status within one community.这只不过是更容易把重点放在亲和团体，而非处理与messiness的人来自不同文化背景和经济地位，一个社区。 But if we take the New Testament seriously–which tells us that the division between Jews and Gentiles has been healed on the Cross–then we ought to seriously consider the way in which our communities reinforce division and worldly patterns, rather than being a sign to the world of the inbreaking Kingdom.但如果我们采取新约圣经严重，从而告诉我们之间的分工犹太人和外邦人已愈合对两岸的话，我们应该认真考虑以何种方式我们的社区，加强分工和世俗化的模式，而不是作为一个标志世界上的inbreaking英国。 In the Kingdom, such divisions aren’t important.在英国，这种分区的并不重要。 In the Kingdom, people who were enemies can become brothers.在英国，人们谁被敌人可以成为兄弟。 In the Kingdom, we can cling to Jesus Christ to teach us to love one another.在英国，我们可以抱耶稣教导我们要彼此相爱。 In the Kingdom, the marginalized are princes of the earth.在英国，被边缘化是王子的地球。